A CONVERSATION WITH…SECOND THOUGHTS
With a new EP on the way, Minna talks to Jude McCreath of Second Thoughts about the EP and how they got started.
Second Thoughts are a Hertfordshire based indie-rock band, formed in 2018 in a GCSE music class. The members of the band are Ben Campbell (vocals, guitar), Jude McCreath (vocals, guitar), David Addison (drums) and Clara Freeman-Taylor (bass) have been playing music together for the last 3 years.
Hi Jude, can you introduce yourself?
I'm Jude, I’m in the band Second Thoughts. I am one of the singers, I write some of the songs. Usually I'm a rhythm guitarist, but I've started doing more lead guitar now. So just whatever needs to be done, so basically guitar-ing. That's my job.
How would you define Second Thoughts’ sound?
I'd say there's quite a big difference between how we used to sound and the direction that we're going in for the future. Our singles from nicotine stains onwards have changed. Over lockdown, we got inspired by lots of 90s alternative bands, which we hadn't heard before when we started as a band, which inspired us to take a bit more of an alternative music direction. Whereas, originally, pre nicotine stains with our first EP we were inspired by Boy Pablo and other bedroom pop bands. We still like that sort of music but we're trying to go in the more alternative 90s inspired direction because that's just what we like listening to and what we enjoy making the most.
Was it a natural progression to switch genres like that?
Whenever we've made music, it's always been trying to rip off the sort of music that we're listening to at the moment. I think it was more of a gradual thing. We just kind of opened up what we listened to more and the music kind of reflected that. There was never really was a moment where we sat down and decided to sound different. To be honest, our sound will probably change again in the future.
How did you guys come together?
The band started with me and Ben, the other singer and songwriter of the band. We met in my GCSE music class at school. We had to do some school project where we had to write a song together, and then we realized it was quite fun. My main instrument is piano, I hadn't played guitar at all up until that point. Then Ben suggested that maybe we should start a band. He taught me how to play guitar for that. Everything I've learned about guitar really has been through this band, which is quite cool. David was in our year group at school, and we didn't know that many drummers. I didn’t know David that much before the band, but we became friends through it. So it was just the three of us for a while. At one point, we had a saxophone player and a keyboardist and our friend Michael who used to produce our earlier songs. Then Georgia who used to play bass for us, but she went off and she's now sailing across the world. When she left she introduced us to Clara, who David distantly knew, because they both do climate activism. Clara can play bass but she also plays cello and guitar, she’s a very talented person. That was two years ago. Our current lineup has been pretty solid for about two years.
How did the name Second Thoughts come about?
It was Ben. He had some really long, convoluted name that had second thoughts as part of it. It was awful. It was really bad. It was just extensive, and I was like “the second thoughts part is quite cool.” It was one of the first name suggestions we had, we didn't really go through that many options before. It was always second thoughts. We thought it would be a name that was already taken because he thought it'd be quite an obvious name. But no one had. So we're now that band.
How has the experience of playing festivals been for you?
Oh, it's been great. It seems like quite an obvious thing to say but it's much more fun playing on big stages at festivals than smaller venues. Ben was saying you can move around more on stage because there's more space. One of the smallest stages we played, called the Wedgewood Rooms in Portsmouth, was quite a fun gig but the stage was so small, we'd barely be able to move. I think at one point I accidentally hit Ben with the top of my guitar, mid set, which wasn't very fun. We did 1 Big Summer in Plymouth, the stage there was massive, and we'd never played on anything that big. It was really cool. There was only one stage in the whole festival so everyone at the festival was kind of forced to watch our set or just face the other direction. So it was a big crowd. It's been great. And we've never really done festivals before this year, so we're hoping to do much more next year.
How have your performances developed from doing the festivals?
Our plan this year was to do a lot of live shows, we want that to be our thing. This year, with the experiences we've had with the festivals and towards the end of last year we did a mini tour around the UK. Our plan has been to really make sure we're good live. So going into next year we can do all sorts of big stuff. But the festivals definitely help, mainly because most of them are outside. I think playing outside when it's sunny, and you can actually see everyone you’re playing to, as opposed to playing to a dark room is really cool. Oh yeah! We played on top of a bus as well. That was quite cool.
No context to that?
No, no more context *laugh*. No, it was for this climate group called Climate Live! They have this bus with a stage on top of it, and they put it as one of the stages at this festival. It's to raise awareness for climate change. We did it as a community festival, but none of the security guards knew that the stage existed, and we didn't have artist passes. So we just had to go through with everybody else with our equipment. They were a bit confused, I mean saying you're playing on top of a bus, unless you see it it doesn't really make much sense. But it was a very fun thing to do.
What’s your favorite song to perform live?
Definitely the new ones. I think a lot of the time of our live sets, we don't actually play that many released songs. A lot of it is usually our unreleased stuff. We've got an EP coming out fairly soon. We actually just signed the record deal for it which is really exciting. A lot of the time in our live sets we play the songs from that. Usually when we work out EPs we finish it quite far in advance, so a lot of the live set is songs that we've got coming up in the future, just because we relate to those songs more. My favorite to play live is called ‘how do you know’ which is probably going to be the next single. It’s got this really cool intro, and we usually begin the set with it because it’s really dramatic and cool.
Congratulations on getting the EP deal! What’s it been like working with a team versus self publishing your music?
Well, it's early days at the moment, it's label called Lab Records they're based in Manchester. We’ve had a couple of meetings with them. It’s more money and people involved which is cool. Before when we've promoted songs and done EPs it's just the promotion that’s been off our own back and just doing it for free. Posting things on TikTok and engaging audiences, promoting as cheaply as possible. So to actually have a budget makes it feel much more professional than it used to. It's a nice progression. And they're all really cool people. We've got a team of managers around us as well, supporting us the whole way.
Did you ever expect something that formed in GCSE music to make it this far?
Well I'd like to say we're quite ambitious people. So I would have wanted it to happen. But it's nice that it has actually happened, and we've got much greater ambitions than we're at at the moment. It’s still an unraveling story, we’ll have to wait another few years and see what happens.
How is this next EP different from the last one?
It's taking the pop-ness of our earlier songs, and the rock-ness of nicotine stains and ‘who cares’ and it’s a hybrid between the two. We've got one song with acoustic guitar. Ben's a big fan of The La’s and The Sundays, so we took a lot of inspiration from them for this one particular song. With a lot of the new songs we write there’s even more of a focus on acoustic guitars which is really exciting. We've never really done that sort of thing before. It sounds really cool. I'm very happy with the songs. It's a four track EP that’s supposed to release around September or October time. It's our best work yet, I would like to say.
Do you have a name for the EP yet?
We do. But I don't know if I can say only because I might say it and then it might change like next week. We have one that we're pretty certain on but unlike the band name, we've been through so many EP names. It could probably change the day before it's released and I wouldn't be surprised.
What's been your favorite previous name?
There was the canceled EP that we were going to do but that never really happened because we just released them as singles instead. For ‘nicotine stains’, ‘joyrider’ and ‘who cares’ they were going to be an EP called Dog Days. But by the time we'd finished, the more recent of the singles ‘nicotine stains’ had been out for so long, we just didn't think it made much sense to group it all into an EP. That's why all the artwork for our most recent singles are the same style, they were meant to be a project called Dog Days.
Is the artwork something that you guys do yourself?
For the most recent three singles it's been Clara's sister, Freya, who is a really talented artist. That’s what's fun about being so autonomous as a band is you can create a community around you and that's what we've tried to do. We get the art from Clara's sister, and our friend Oscar does our photos. We have a creative scene around us. With our older songs for the stay hydrated cover, it was David's sister that took the photo, and then I've got a friend called Amy who did the ‘parachute’ and ‘obvious’ cover.
If you could describe the EP in three words, what three words would you use?
Energetic. Real-sounding, because we recorded it live instead of on a computer. And fun! It's really short, only four songs, but we put so much effort into those four songs, we think it's worth it.
What song are you most excited to release?
I could say my song on the EP. But to be honest, probably ‘how do you know’ I think it's really cool. I also have a song I wrote called ‘forget her’ which I'm quite proud of as well.
You’ve had the chance to work with Ross MacDonald (bassist for The 1975) and Iain Berryman (producer for Wolf Alice, beabadoobee and Hozier). walk us through that experience of working with such well known figures in the industry?
One of our managers called Dan, used to go to school with The 1975 so he introduced us to Ross. I think we were one of the first bands that Ross produced with because he wanted to get into producing. It was really cool. He's a really nice guy. He was fine tuning what we already had. We worked with him on ‘nicotine stains’ and ‘joyrider.’ But specifically with ‘joyrider’, we had the song sorted out, and then it was Ross's idea to have that lead part in the intro that didn't exist before. He was suggesting ideas that we might not have already considered. Iain is the guy we've worked on for the most recent EP, and that was really cool because he's an experienced sound engineer. He knows what he's talking about. It’s kind of difficult, sometimes, working with producers, because they have a different direction that they want the song to go. So on a couple of songs we want to do a guitar solo and Iain would be like, “maybe let's try something else” and we’d have to come to a compromise, but most of the time that makes the song sound better. So you have to give your creation and let them do their thing with it. As difficult as that can be sometimes.
On the band’s website it says you are learning accordion, I have to ask, how's that going?
I think I have it somewhere! I’m meant to give it to Clara because she wanted to learn. I have it here! I broke it because I was playing accordion super hard so it doesn't work anymore. The buttons have kind of collapsed in on themselves. Which isn't ideal, but it can still kind of make noise. I was given it as a present. I thought it’d be really cool to whip out and play. But it's not sounding great at the moment.
So we're not going to get an accordion feature on the next couple tracks?
Maybe, I’d like to at least. We'd have to build the band around the accordion, I think it needs to be front and center.
What's next for second thoughts?
This EP with the new record deal we've signed. We’re also hoping to do some tour support, which is really exciting. We've done support slots, but never a whole tour with another band or artists. So that'd be amazing. And working on lots more music because we haven't released that much this year. Lots to look forward to.
Do you have anything else you'd like to say?
Just the fact we've got new music coming out soon, and to be excited by that because we're super excited. We’re performing on the 30th of September, supporting Hard-Fi in Manchester. We're playing at the Northampton Town Takeover on the 24th of September. Also we’ll be in Reading playing in the bus stage again for Climate Live! again.